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Posted: December 2nd, 2010 under Wizards.
Comments
Comment from crozby
Time December 2, 2010 at 1:22 PM
My comments:
I really think Flip is confused at this point. However, this goes back to his ability to motivate his players, especially on defense. As I posted once before (an article from back when Flip was coaching in Detroit), it showed that Flip had lost respect from the Detroit players. Some were upset about his offensive scheme(s), but more were upset about his defensive scheme(s). It was mostly his defensive scheme(s) that eventually got him fired. The organization was not in agreement with the way he ran defense.
I now think that we are seeing that here in Washington. I don’t know what the future holds, but one thing a coach has to do is have the respect of his players. Blatche lost that last year and now others are beginning to loose it also. If that is the case, then you can only cure that with a new coach.
However, I cannot fully blame Flip for the way the team has played this year. Players themselves have to step up to the plate, have heart, and want to win games. To not play defense is just pathetic. Last night, Oklahoma and New Jersey went 3 overtimes and each still did not score as many points as Toronto did on us. I makes no sense.
I would suggest going strictly to a man defense and holding players accountable. If they cannot guard the man assigned to them, then they sit. Also, as a coach I know that man defense makes players play harder and puts more pressure on the ball. In zone, players are always expecting other players to pick up their man as he leaves their area of play. It can be confusing at times and this may be affecting the play of the team. Again, Flip was fired from Detroit because his defensive scheme(s) began to come into question.
A change is definitely needed.
The below article from the Washington Post (2006) gives a lot of detail about Flip’s coaching in Detroit. Pay attention to the defense parts.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/28/AR2006052801082.html
Comment from Brickjp
Time December 2, 2010 at 1:52 PM
Zone defense is worthless. This is why hardly any teams use it in the NBA. Teams can get away with it in college because the shooting overall is not nearly as good. Every team has players that can break the zone. We didn’t even rotate to cover guys right next to the basket. I mean come on. That was the worst defense I’ve see in a while, even from us. What happened to our defense that showed up vs Orlando? The Raptors were laughing at us with how all the easy looks they were getting. It was sickening.
We better tighten up. We need a team mentality committing to defense and rebounding. We just got burned by one of the lesser teams in the league. I mean, straight embarrassed. That was a disgrace – we better show up at home on Friday vs the banged up Blazers. Play the guys who are willing to put it all on the line on the defensive end please.
Comment from neal
Time December 2, 2010 at 2:23 PM
Good points crozby, although I hate to hear them. I presume you’re not proposing a change mid-year. If you can Flip who do hire that’s better?
Comment from neal
Time December 2, 2010 at 2:27 PM
Actually, if there’s a better coach out there I’ll bet Leonsis has him on his speed dial by the end of the season.
Comment from GrifonRacing
Time December 2, 2010 at 2:28 PM
Robby Gordon doesn’t win very many NASCAR races because he doesn’t have good equipment, doesn’t have a top notch team behind him, and only really has the ability when driving road courses. Jimmy Johnson wins a lot of NASCAR races and championships because he has exatly the opposite. The very best equipment, one of the very best teams on the circuit, and a driver that can flat out get it done in any venue.
The Wizards are Robby Gordon at this point. Our players aren’t very good players. Most rode the pine on their previous teams. A ex D league player gets released by San Antonio… we sign him… and start him. That speaks volumns. Yi, Hilton, Thornton, Cartier… are not good players. Do they have their moments? Of course they are NBA players, just not the best of the bunch. Tom Mandel is almost always right in his assessments (something I don’t say lightly and have learned over the years having been wrong to his right so many times lol). Another tip of the cap once again to him. He even warned all of us that “finger pointing” with a team like ours is all but inevitable. He said we would only win 20 games because of the talent level on our team. Peer pressure has made him up that to 22 lol but he is still right. I’m not a coach, but, I’m pretty sure Flip is not trying to intentionally lose games. Maybe his schemes aren’t the best, but, imo he simply doesn’t have the horses to get the job done on any kind of consistent level.
Comment from crozby
Time December 2, 2010 at 2:38 PM
Neal, I would definitely try to get Mark Jackson. He was rumored for the New York vacany a while back, was a point guard, and would be great for John Wall. In my opinion, he would be another Doc Rivers. His analysis when he is commentating with Jeff Van Gundy is always dead on point.
Comment from GrifonRacing
Time December 2, 2010 at 2:42 PM
IIIIF at some point there is a coaching change which I’m not advocating I wouldn’t mind seeing Sam get his chance.
Comment from GrifonRacing
Time December 2, 2010 at 2:56 PM
An ex D league player…. not A ex. I know but it bothered me LOL
Comment from dayle
Time December 2, 2010 at 4:48 PM
Wall said Saunders questioned his team’s ability to
perform against the Raptors.. “to hear your head coach
say he doesn’t have faith in you….. that hurt”, said Wall.
“And then we went out and proved exactly what he
thought.”
Comment from GrifonRacing
Time December 2, 2010 at 5:17 PM
If Flip said that “before the game” he should not only be fired he should be placed against a substantial wall with a firing squad staring him down. Maybe his people skills are a little questionable? I can’t imagine a coach at his level saying something like that to a 20 year old rookie BEFORE the game. How is that positive motivaton?
If this is true I’m going to have to re-evaluate my opinion of Flip. I, at this point, have no problem with him as a coach when his team is on the floor. His people skills, or lack thereof, have been documented in the past. This one kinda takes the cake though.
Comment from dayle
Time December 2, 2010 at 5:22 PM
I think he said it to the team.. he wasn’t happy with
their practice. It was in today’s Post.
Comment from dayle
Time December 2, 2010 at 5:25 PM
If it is true, it sort of explains their play.
Comment from GrifonRacing
Time December 2, 2010 at 5:27 PM
Telling your team that you have lost faith in them probably isn’t the best motivational tool LOL.
Comment from GrifonRacing
Time December 2, 2010 at 5:29 PM
It would go a long way toward explaining how we can lose so badly to another bottom dweller Dayle. We were beaten before we ever hit the court.
Comment from WE WANT A WINNER
Time December 2, 2010 at 5:35 PM
I still believe in this team but I do not know if the players really want to accomplish something this year. I want to see Wall stay aggressive from the start of every game and I want Blatche to step up in every way imaginable. He is really lazy on defense and his shot blocking game seems to disappear. Our opponents have to have the highest offensive efficiency rate because either our opponents score on their first shot or get every offensive board. I want to see us compete on the road, especially against teams in the east. You can say we don’t have the players, but we just don’t come out with any urgency.
Comment from wizfan and the kid
Time December 2, 2010 at 7:08 PM
As someone who reads more than posts, here is my assessment:
Our coach looks like a first year teacher. He is moving from strategy to strategy trying to test to see if something works. Since he is unsure of what will work, he doesn’t stay with something long enough or with enough consistency. Cycling between tough love, brutal honesty and outright praise can be confusing for everyone, coach and player. Until Flip finds the right buttons to press, I think it is going to be this way. So expect a lot of see-saw until things begin to look better, or he gets canned.
I know that many of you want the coach’s head on a block and others feel like we just don’t have enough decent player to win. You know what? They both have the same issues. The only reason for concern: As Tom points out, some players are bad and stay bad and as GrifronRacing has pointed out our coach has some people skills problems.
Comment from dayle
Time December 2, 2010 at 7:21 PM
Some players do improve and some don’t stay bad.
Tom was positive last season that Nick would stay bad.
Other players improve because of motivation, better
environment etc.
Comment from gray16
Time December 2, 2010 at 7:37 PM
gabbo says:
“hinrich played well tonight” – gray16
Were you watching the game or following a box score?
————————————
i didn’t get to see the game since the internet feed wasn’t working, so yes i was following the box score. but of course, you were watching with biased eyes, so is that much better?… you watched last night with a made up judgement of kirk’s game in your head, and you were going to see the negatives over the positives no matter what.
according to other people watching the game (on bulletsforever), kirk did play well last night. that’s multiple guys (who don’t like kirk either) vs you who seem to have it out for the guy. i’ll trust their judgment over yours, no offense.
and looking at the stat sheet, he did have a good game. so that helps my conclusion.
and let me guess what you are going to get on him for… him dribbling like earl boykins? problem is, our offense wasn’t the problem last night, it was our defense. and guess who is one of the main problems on that end?… guess who isn’t putting in the effort on that end?… a guy you won’t come close to criticizing because of your biased opinion.
Comment from gray16
Time December 2, 2010 at 7:42 PM
can’t wait for the cleveland game… can’t remember the last time i rooted for cleveland… i think it was just before the (mini) rivalry started. but i’ll be cheering them on tonight, would love to see the heat lose. at the same time, seeing lebron go off would be fun to see as well.
i’ll be at the portland game, hope to see more effort from the team there. hopefully wall starts, and hope javale plays good. but bottom line, need some effort.
Comment from WE WANT A WINNER
Time December 2, 2010 at 8:01 PM
This game is the second most hyped up game after the season opener. Lehype is a cry baby who is too sensitive and will choke under pressure. Mo Williams is cooler than him in the fourth quarter. Shout out to Aj tonight, even though his game has fallen off a cliff since leaving Washington. I will be happy if Lequeen loses but if Cleveland loses the east race will become tighter and better for the Wiz.
Comment from Tom Mandel
Time December 2, 2010 at 8:02 PM
@ gotabig — you asked whether I watched the Toronto game. I did, although I have to admit to turning it off as the 4th quarter began.
I’ve gotten to watch every game so far this year — when they’re not on csn I have found the csn team doing the game on 856 (some kind of a turner sports channel).
When I wrote that “Kirk is playing well tonight”, that’s exactly what he was doing. I think he was 4-5 at that point, had at least a couple of his assists and boards, and hadn’t yet turned it over.
He didn’t sustain that. On the other hand, he sure played better than Gil. And he sure played better than Dray as well.
The only guys that played well overall were McGee and Antonio Gee (but he only got 14 minutes for some reason). Wall was ok.
I suppose the truth is that when you are getting *stomped on* the way we were it doesn’t mean much if a few guys play well. We got down by 15 or something in the first quarter, and we never were in the game for a minute after that.
Comment from Tom Mandel
Time December 2, 2010 at 8:22 PM
Btw, for those of you who think Gil is back, he’s the old Gil, he’s “getting there,” he’s being productive… or any variation on the above, here’s something you don’t want to hear: he is shooting 36% over the last five games — he’s at 39% for the season, which is a career low itself.
His fouls are up, his assists are down, his rebounds are on the low end of career averages, he isn’t getting to the line (not even as much as he did as a rookie), he’s turning it over at a higher rate than any full year as a Wizard, and his steals are at a lower rate than any full year as a Wizard.
Sorry; these facts tell a pretty clear story.
Comment from Tom Mandel
Time December 2, 2010 at 8:32 PM
Hinrich, on the other hand, is playing more or less at his career average level overall.
In particular, he is shooting well – over 53% on 2 pt. attempts and @ 35% on 3pointers – and almost 86% from the FT line.
Comment from draftazoid
Time December 2, 2010 at 9:50 PM
Tom,
Don’t forget that Gilbert is the reason why we are playing ZONE defense.
He had the reputation for being one of the worst guard defenders, IN HIS PRIME.
How bad do you think he would be if we went to Man to Man when he is on the court now?
If you don’t want Zone and are mad at Flip for playing it then you should tell Flip to stop playing Gilbert.
Comment from maggicman11
Time December 2, 2010 at 9:53 PM
Kirk is not giving us what we need. What are opposing SF’s and SG’s doing against us? Killing us is what they are doing. why? Because our dumb coach thinks he can play PG’s as SF’s. there is a reason why winning coaches play players at their positions. there is a reason why players even have positions. there is a reason why you dont play McGee at the Point or Gil at center. Flip has yet to show he understands these reasons in the games. he is terrible and a virus to the Washington Wizards
Comment from Wizards4Life
Time December 2, 2010 at 9:53 PM
the story with Gil is he has been out for ever and needs time to get back to his old self even tho you hate to say it its true and Kirk gets Beat on D# 90% of the time and what about his turn overs? you love stats so much how did you leave them out? an the fact that he slows down the O# pounds the ball in the floor and trys to pass with 5-8 Sec left in the shot clock he never drives the ball i could go on i think i made my point!
Comment from draftazoid
Time December 2, 2010 at 9:54 PM
Everyone who is screaming for Flip to be fired should carry BAYER ASPRIN in your pocket because you only have 2+ years to keep whining on this blog about it.
Instructions:
If part of your body feels numb then take the Bayer Aspiring as soon as possible. That will help prevent you from getting a stroke. Make sure you go to the emergency room right away so you can live to blog the next day.
Comment from dayle
Time December 2, 2010 at 10:03 PM
Tom,
I think you’re jumping to conclusions about Gilbert just
as you did about Nick.
As Flip said, it’s like Gilbert is still in training camp.
Can we just give it a little time and see what happens.
Comment from tyrone2000
Time December 2, 2010 at 10:13 PM
Gilbert Arenas is not the Wizards problem! Flip played the zone without Arenas in the lineup last year, so to put it out there that he is the reason for the zone can’t be true.
I believe Flip is stuck as to rather he should be developing the talented youngsters or putting a veteran team on the floor that will win .
Comment from draftazoid
Time December 2, 2010 at 10:14 PM
Gilbert was only out 3 weeks (and pigged out and got fat). He’s been back for 14 games now.
What you see is what you get.
How much time does he need?
Comment from gray16
Time December 2, 2010 at 10:27 PM
tyrone, i remember flip saying he was using zone because no one out there could defend last season. he said he could’ve scored on them, or something to that extent.
here is what i’m reffering to:
http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=5206
i also remember seeing a lot less zone towards the end of last season when guys were able to contain their man. if you ask me, i believe the same thing will happen when the players on the current team start being able to contain their man as well.
Comment from getabigboyoffense
Time December 2, 2010 at 10:29 PM
@gray16 – If you check my early posts, you will find that I liked the fact that we had Kirk on the Wizards. It is only after watching him demonstrate that he is a total defensive liability that I am advocating that we see as little of him as reasonably possible. So, I don’t understand why you would think that I was “…watching with biased eyes.”
I find it amazing that so many bloggers make posts about the game when they are not even watching it. Itchy keyboard fingers?
Comment from getabigboyoffense
Time December 2, 2010 at 10:33 PM
Flip has lost the respect of the team and both EG and Ted recognize that. If we are embarrassed by the Trail Blazers tomorrow, that could be the final straw.
Comment from Wizards4Life
Time December 2, 2010 at 10:34 PM
@Daftazoid not just this year he has been out about 2 years if you don’t count the first 20 or so games of last season then he has been out about 4 years its not like preseason will get you back in shape after all that time..
Comment from gray16
Time December 2, 2010 at 10:36 PM
lol, you want to see as less of hinrich because he is a defensive liability?…
yet a big thumbs up for dray every game…
like i said, “watching with biased eyes”
Comment from draftazoid
Time December 2, 2010 at 10:47 PM
The Team hasn’t lost respect for Flip.
The Coaching Staff has lost faith in some of the individual players.
Look for major changes in the starting lineup and reserve roles for some of the starters (or so called starters).
I look for the benching of Gilbert, Hinrich and Blatche.
I look forward to Nick Young, Trevor Booker and Yi being inserted into the starting lineup.
That’s my guess.
Flip needs to show the players that this is a business.
Comment from draftazoid
Time December 2, 2010 at 10:49 PM
John Wall
Nick Young
Trevor Booker
Yi Jianlian
Javale McGee
That is my starting lineup tomorrow.
Comment from ChenierFan
Time December 2, 2010 at 10:55 PM
Tomorrow’s game vs the Blazers will be a particularly interesting game to observe Flip’s coaching…Here’s why.
A few nights ago I watched the Blazers play the Nets and Roy was torching the Nets in the first half and the Blazers had an 8 point lead at the half over the ever-hustling Nets (what a concept – a team that tries hard).
Midway through the second half the Nets coach put a taller player (Outlaw) on Roy. That shut down Roy and brought the Blazer offense to a screeching halt. Good move coach.
The question is, will Flip do the same thing? It is likely that John, Gil and Kirk will not be able to guard Roy and Roy is the key to the Blazers. Will Flip be as strategically savvy as the Nets coach? We’ll see.
By the way, Yi is a game time decision because of a run in his stocking.
Comment from getabigboyoffense
Time December 2, 2010 at 11:00 PM
@gray16 – You are entitled to express any opinion that you want; however, it might be appropriate to have seen the game if you want to be taken seriously. Actually, our bigs are getting in trouble by having to try to defend the opponents who easily get around our guards (Kirk, Gil and, yes, John) while additionally trying to defend their own men. To add insult to injury, Flop has our “bigs” out front on his stupid zone with the guards under the basket. So much for complaining about a lack of rebounding.
Comment from gray16
Time December 2, 2010 at 11:01 PM
chenier fan, first we may not have shown effort against the raptors, but don’t forget all that energy we showed against the magic. at times, we are a hard working team, it was really only last night that we showed no energy.
and as far as putting a taller player on roy, it may work. or it could’ve just worked for outlaw since he played with roy for so long and was used to going against him so much anyway. i’m guessing the latter, but it’s just a guess. players that have a lot of experience guarding a player tend to be more comfortable doing it.
i say put hinrich on roy. but we have to have the team defending the pick and roll, one player can’t stop that.
Comment from getabigboyoffense
Time December 2, 2010 at 11:02 PM
@draftazoid – Regarding your lineup for tomorrow: Nick, Trevor and Yi will be in their seats when we have the initial jump ball. Although, I would really like to see Nick starting in place of Kirk.
Comment from gray16
Time December 2, 2010 at 11:10 PM
ok gabbo, fair enough. and when you stop being so biased, i’ll start taking you more seriously. when you put everyone at fault and don’t try so hard to find excuses for others, i’ll take you more serious. when you can admit that dray’s effort on the defensive end has been poor, i’ll definitely start taking you more seriously.
heck i’ll meet you halfway by repeating what i’ve said before. i hate the zone defense, i think flip has made some mistakes this season, and i think hinrich has had some poor games this season. i also agree that the perimeter players haven’t been defending of late (especially gil, who just isn’t a good defender).
there are some things i agree with you on, but there are some things that you just take to far, like your favoritism for blatche and your hatred for flip. while i can see you praising blatche for his positives, and getting on flip for his negatives, you need to learn how to balance it, because a lot of times you are just coming up with whatever reason you can to justify in your head that blatche is great and flip is bad. if you can get rid of that biased opinion and learn how to balance it, you could start seeing things a little more clearly imo.
Comment from getabigboyoffense
Time December 2, 2010 at 11:11 PM
@gray16 – If Hinrich is assigned to guard Roy, Roy might go off for 40. Hinrich makes it almost impossible to defend the pick and roll since he doesn’t seem to want to fight over the top of the pick and gets stuck watching the opposing center score over him on the switch. If you are able to see the game tomorrow, watch Kirk playing “D”. It is a joke. He looks good when he is one-on-one and his man has the ball on the outside..about 25 feet from the basket. He just can’t keep up when there are other players involved. Since it is a team game, he gets beat frequently.
Comment from getabigboyoffense
Time December 2, 2010 at 11:18 PM
@gray16 – You might never meet anyone so fixed in his opinion as GABBO. I am a total pain-in-the-butt “my way or the highway” person. I believe that ‘Dray demonstrated that he can be an outstanding NBA player and I’ll advocate for him constantly. Does he make mistakes? Of course. Everyone makes mistakes. Do I believe that Flop is misusing him (and every other Wizard)? Of course. Do I believe that ‘Dray and the Wizards will be more successful with Sam as the head coach? STRAIGHT!
Comment from gray16
Time December 2, 2010 at 11:22 PM
don’t worry gabbo, i’ll be at the game tomorrow and i’ll be watching kirk on defense.
as for the pick and roll, i’ve heard john wall and flip saunders say hinrich is one of the team’s best pick and roll defenders and i agree. the problem isn’t kirk fighting over the top, it’s the big man stepping up to keep the ball handler from penetrating.
Comment from gray16
Time December 2, 2010 at 11:23 PM
gabbo, i have one final question for the night. do you feel blatche has been giving sufficient effort on the defensive end in the season thus far?
Comment from getabigboyoffense
Time December 2, 2010 at 11:52 PM
@gray16 – As I’ve said, I’m totally biased regarding Andray Blatche. I find him to be a very honest, what-you-see-is-what-you-get individual who is easily discouraged. Sometimes he is discouraged by his own performance; frequently he is discouraged with Flip. I believe that he gives less than a stellar performance when he is discouraged. I believe that, with the exception of the last 32 games of last season, his NBA coaches have been negligent in their use of his talents. I wish that he would be nastier when taking the ball to the basket. I don’t know why he isn’t. His overall talent sometimes causes folks to expect more of him. I do.
I believe that Flip’s crazy defensive schemes have caused every Wizard to appear to be not doing what is expected of him. I believe that Andray has had defensive lapses that are viewed as lack of effort. However, I don’t think that he believes that he is not putting forth sufficient effort.
To us it’s a game; to the players and coaches it’s a way of making a very good living. None of us wants to be viewed as not doing a good job. It is particularly difficult when you have to do your job in front of millions of people who have blogs where they can criticize you as you work. I try to be conscious of that when I’m being critical; however, if not for me and you, these guys would not be able to make a great living playing the game that each of us played just for fun for many years. Consequently, I believe that we are entitled to blog away.
Comment from getabigboyoffense
Time December 2, 2010 at 11:54 PM
@gray16 – Enjoy the game tomorrow. I will try to also.
Comment from dcbutler357
Time December 3, 2010 at 1:12 AM
“The team is trying to rebuild and Gilbert is one of the leaders on the team,” Leonsis wrote to the Post. “Gilbert is the best player on the team right now.”
Comment from GrifonRacing
Time December 3, 2010 at 3:57 AM
Gabbo.. thank you. You are the Gabbo of old again. You are no longer bashing bloggers that don’t agree with you. Everyone has their own right to their opinions, no matter what the opinions are based upon. I understand your love of the Wizards… most of us share it too. Again, I apologize for the “harsh” way I brought it to your attention. Diplomatic isn’t usually my way.
Comment from GrifonRacing
Time December 3, 2010 at 4:02 AM
DCB… right now… Gilbert and JaVale probably are the best players on the team. I love Gilbert and hate his salary almost as much. With another 18 million next off season… CBA and all… Go Gilbert Go 
Comment from GrifonRacing
Time December 3, 2010 at 4:28 AM
I should probably explain that a little more fully lol. IF Gilbert continues to get back to his former form… Orlando already wants him and has since last season… The possibility of a trade … Gilbert for Vince… heads up gets closer
Comment from gray16
Time December 3, 2010 at 9:11 AM
fair enough gabbo, i just think you blame coach a little too much, but mabye that’s because you were a coach so its easiest for you to find faults in him. plus, we will always grow closer to the players than the coach, so it’s only natural for us to take their sides over him, i do that a lot of times too, especially back in the day with eddie jordan.
and thanks, like you i’ll try to enjoy the game as well. as long as the team gives effort, i believe i will enjoy it.
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Comment from dlts20
Time December 2, 2010 at 12:42 PM
Can Flip Please Just For 1 Game, Start…….
the Wall-Gil backcourt with Kirk on the bench. We’re 17 games in with Gil playing in 14 of them, Wall in 11, and they have only started 1 game together, and that was with Kirk. Stop acting like Gil missed a hundred games to the point where he has to be on the bench when he comes back. Stop acting like Wall missed a hundred games to the point where he’s got to come off the bench when he gets back. We are the only team in the league who has there 2 best players on the bench all year long. Get them both in the starting lineup & put Kirk on the bench.
We’re 17 games in and we still havent one time ran the lineup that everyone thought we would use, but yet we wonder why we lose every game. His rotations suck. He’s all crossed up now. Stop crabbing around and just put the real lineup in and see what happens. Then you can say that we suck, or that Gil & Wall cant play together, or whatever but dont keep trying your hardest every game to do something other then that. Now again Gil played so bad & Kirk played so solid that it will be another excuse for Flip to again not start that lineup. Either Wall or Gil will again come off the bench or he will start 3 small guys. I could see if we were winning but we never win. Just start the real lineup and see how it goes, you idiot…..lol