Comment from Rick
Time August 30, 2010 at 10:21 AM

I saw Yi play in the China vs. Greece game. He looked ok. His jumper looks pretty good, but he got a lot of points off easy dunks. He runs the floor pretty well, but didn’t look to be in the best shape (he had his hands on his knees a lot at the defensive end).

He’s got great size, and with his athleticism and shot I think he can play the 3-spot on offense. Defensively, however, he would have trouble guarding most small forwards.

If the Wiz play a matchup zone though, then you could have a back line of McGee, Blatche and Yi. That’s 3 seven footers to protect the rim and rebound. I’d like to see that.

Comment from Babakism
Time August 30, 2010 at 11:16 AM

Yi is playing well which is awesome but if you notice he is 2nd in scoring………..the guy who is first in scoring is some dude I don’t think anyone on this blog or probobly any NBA blog has ever heard of from New Zealand. What Yi is doing is great but I feel like we should look at it the way we look at John Wall and Javale Mcgee in summer league.

Comment from Gotabigboyoffense
Time August 30, 2010 at 12:55 PM

The latest on Yi Jianlian, Kevin Seraphin’s visa and the Wizards — Wizards Insider (WAPO)

http://voices.washingtonpost.com/wizardsinsider/2010/08/the-latest-on-yi-jianlian-kevi.html

Comment from Gotabigboyoffense
Time August 30, 2010 at 12:57 PM

“Wizards first-round pick Kevin Seraphin probably would’ve liked to have been on the floor when France upset heavy favorite Spain to open the world championships, but he wasn’t complaining too much. Seraphin’s agent, Bouna Ndiaye, said his client has received his work visa and arrived in Washington on Saturday. Seraphin was cut from the French team after he was unable to recover from his minor knee injury suffered during the French league championships last May.” –

from article above

Comment from neal
Time August 30, 2010 at 2:52 PM

Thanks for the link, gabbo. It’s good to read that Yi has an inside game as well as long jump shots. At this point a 3-man rotation of bigs (McGee, Blatche, Yi) looks better to me than including Armstrong or Seraphin.

Comment from draftazoid
Time August 30, 2010 at 2:53 PM

Flip has said in the past that he likes having an “8 man rotation.”
What would be your Wizards 8 man rotation?

Comment from Babakism
Time August 30, 2010 at 3:14 PM

Call me unamerican but I love watching the USA lose in international play. GO BRAZIL!

Comment from Babakism
Time August 30, 2010 at 3:20 PM

8 man rotaion

Starters(its funny how we basically all assume these are the starters. I wonder if someone might earn a starting spot in camp and preseason that we wouldn’t expect to.)

Wall
Gil
Howard
Blatche
Mcgee

Bench

Hinrich
Thorton
James Singleton lol most likely Yi

Comment from Babakism
Time August 30, 2010 at 3:32 PM

Lamar Odom looks so mad after getting called for a charge on Splitter. Hope he is ready to get called for some more in the NBA next year lol

Comment from crozby
Time August 30, 2010 at 4:20 PM

8-man rotation

1. Wall
2. Gil
3. Howard
4. Blatche
5. McGee

From bench:

Hinrich
Young
Yi

Comment from crozby
Time August 30, 2010 at 4:28 PM

Hey anyone, is there another center (that’s good) still out there available? If Hilton doesn’t work out, it would be great to have another center, even one that could possibly compete with McGee for the spot. Is there anybody left out there? Or, even a trade. That’s the only position I’m worried about, especially if McGee gets hurt or something.

Comment from Babakism
Time August 30, 2010 at 4:32 PM

@ crozby he’s not a true center but I love me some james singleton and honestly he can play the center position better than HA and probobly even better than mcgee at this point in mcgees career

Comment from neal
Time August 30, 2010 at 5:13 PM

babakism, I think you got the 8 man rotation right:

Wall, Hinrich
Arenas, Hinrich
Howard, Thornton
Blatche, Yi
McGee, Yi

Booker will get a few minutes at SF and Serafin a few minutes somewhere, but the above 8 will get most of them.

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time August 30, 2010 at 5:26 PM

I love Singleton too, Babakism. But at 6’8″ 230 lbs, he’s closer to a 3 than he is a 5. If anything, he’s a little undersized for a 4. He played about half at the 3 for us and half at the 4.

But, wherever he plays, he contributes — I’d love to have him on the Wizards, and I have *no idea* why he doesn’t have a job *somewhere.* He’s more productive than most starters. Doesn’t mean he could sustain it for 35 minutes a game, though maybe he could. For sure he’s a guy who can give you a very solid 1500 minutes over a season.

Whether he’s a Center or not — I agree he can play the position better than Hilton Armstrong!!

Comment from datonypony
Time August 30, 2010 at 5:28 PM

Haha @ Babakism. The leading scorer ‘Kirk Penny’ is indeed from New Zealand.

He’s probably the best basketball player from New Zealand, he has a damn good jump shot.

Comment from gray16
Time August 30, 2010 at 5:54 PM

if booker can make spot up shots, he should take the minutes away from yi in a hot second.

a guy who has plenty of defense vs a guy who can’t defend a tree… so if booker could hit 45% of his shots, he’s gonna do a lot more for this team than yi can.

so even if booker is undersized at the 4, he’s still the better option because the only reason being undersized is a problem is defensively, and yi can’t defend to begin with.

but i think thornton will start out getting more minutes than booker based on reputation.

so to start, i see the rotation being:

wall
arenas
howard
blatche
mcgee

hinrich
thornton
armstrong

with yi, thornton, and young getting spot minutes.

but, if i were flip, i would have howard come off the bench, and make my lineup:

wall
arenas
booker
blatche
mcgee

hinrich
howard
armstrong

with yi, young, and thornton filling in.

Comment from gray16
Time August 30, 2010 at 5:59 PM

oh and my lineup would be put into place at around 20 games into the season, giving booker some time to get used to the nba game and prove himself. also allowing howard to get his legs under him so he could be a sixth man for us, since he can create his own shot.

this way you have three guys (wall, arenas, and blatche) who can create for the starting lineup with booker and mcgee providing defense, rebounding, and getting their baskets off of the first three. then you have howard creating shots off the bench providing instant offense while wall/arenas, and blatche can get some rest.

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time August 30, 2010 at 6:11 PM

I don’t know about the 8-man rotation idea. We’re not that kind of team. We don’t have enough set to count on that. That makes sense for a team where you have productive veterans who’ve been with you a while, and roles are clearly distributed and understood.

Flip expressed his goal to have an 8-man rotation when he first got here. It was *easy* to project that rotation: the starters were to be Gil, Miller, Butler, Jamison and Haywood. Or maybe Stevenson would start (if he actually came back from the injuries of the previous year), and Miller would be a heavy-minute 6th man at the 2 and 3. Then Foye. And either Dray or McGee.

Even in that case, Flip had the idea that Nick would get lots of chances, and when he had a hot hand the team would ride him. Obviously, it didn’t turn out that way.

This year, we know the first cut guard rotation, and we know Dray will start. God knows other than that. I mean we have no one *but* JaVale to start at Center. At the 3, we don’t know when Howard will be back and ready for starter minutes. Hard to imagine that happening by the beginning of the season.

As far as veteran bench players: Hinrich is the 3d guard. To back up Center, we have Armstrong who is a bad player. To back up the 4, we have Yi who is a bad player. To back up the 3 (should Howard be back) we have Thornton, who is a bad player (and if Howard isn’t back, he is our most likely starter at the beginning of the season).

Hinrich is ok. But if Armstrong, Yi and Thornton each play a lot of minutes we won’t even get to 20 wins. And that’s nine guys. Then there’s Nick. Nick won’t play a lot of minutes unless Howard is slow to come back or injuries hit the 2-3 positions in other ways. If he plays a lot of minutes along w/ HA, Yi and AT, we may not get past 15 wins.

We also have Seraphin and Booker. Our best hope for a few extra wins is if Booker turns out to be solid right away — if he has a rookie year like Taj Gibson did last year for the Bulls (2200 minutes and slightly above league average for a 4), then we may get something like 25 wins.

Of course, if Seraphin plays as well as, say, Ben Wallace in his 2d season with Washington — doing similar things, i.e. about 1000 minute w/ not much shooting, just put-backs so at a high % but getting rebounds, steals & blocks w/o turning it over while playing solid enforcer defense — that too would keep us in a bunch of games so we’d get a few more wins.

Comment from draftazoid
Time August 30, 2010 at 6:24 PM

I think the starters are pretty much set:
Wall
Gilbert
Howard (if healthy)
Blatche
McGee

I think the biggest Wild Card is Trevor Booker. He is extremely fast and very strong. If he has a good camp then I can see him with Hinrich as being the first ones off the bench. (Hinrich-guards, Booker- 3 or 4)
If he has a good camp and Howard is still hurt I can see him being inserted into the starting lineup.
I think the Wizards are going to give him every opportunity to play alot of minutes.

Comment from neal
Time August 30, 2010 at 6:24 PM

Tom, you’ve outdone yourself this time, saying Thornton and Yi are “bad” players and “we may not get past 15 wins”. It’s one thing not to get carried away by home-town bias but you seem to be bending over backwards to bad-mouth our guys.

Comment from gray16
Time August 30, 2010 at 6:27 PM

yeah, tbh i don’t really like the 8 man rotation idea to begin with. of course wall, arenas, blatche, and howard need to get their minutes since they are the main source of production, but everyone else is guys that are role players and should be able to come in and play when called on.

so i do see those 4 guys (and hinrich) getting a lot of minutes on the regular, but the rest of the guys’ minutes will probably fluctuate and reflect how well they are playing at that time.

Comment from dcbutler357
Time August 30, 2010 at 6:31 PM

Okay, stop the presses!!!!

that’s mild mannered neal talking/typing….lol….

this makes for a lot of suspense and intrigue…..will the wiz step up and show TomM, that he needs to gain confidence in them,or will we have another losing season, and TAP take hold of the reins and dissiminate off the wall quotes during his press conferences…lol….tune in same blog time, same blog channel

Comment from draftazoid
Time August 30, 2010 at 6:33 PM

McGee will get 30+ minutes a game.
(If for not other reason than there is no one else to play Center).
He deserves it after Summer League and trying out for Team USA.
The threat of him running with Wall on fast breaks I am sure is worrying alot of the big boned Centers out there.

Comment from gray16
Time August 30, 2010 at 7:06 PM

from nets fans i’ve heard bad things, and i’ve heard signs of encouragement. i’ll reserve full judgement on him when i see him play for the wizards.

but from the sounds of it he has been a bad player for most of his career. he shoots too many jumpers and doesn’t play defense.

good things i’ve heard is that he’s a hard worker and it looked like he started improving last season under kiki, and that even his defense looked better towards the end of last season.

hopefully he continues to improve and does something for the wizards.

Comment from gray16
Time August 30, 2010 at 7:07 PM

oh and i was talking about yi of course lol

Comment from Babakism
Time August 30, 2010 at 7:14 PM

I just wanted to play along with the game but any blogger that said it will be more than an 8 man rotation you are correct. I wouldn’t be surprised if no less than 10 guys play every night at least until all star break. This just gives us 1 more thing to look for in the box score

Comment from Babakism
Time August 30, 2010 at 7:31 PM

@Tom Mcgee weighs 230 pounds also and I bet Singleton can probobly lift twice as much as Javale too. Obviously he is shorter and really isn’t a center but I feel like he has the attitude, heart, desire, and most importantly nastiness to play bigger than he really is down low.

Either way, we haven’t even signed him, probobly won’t, and I’m probobly one of the only people that holds this sentiment.

@ Draftazoid you are right about Booker being the biggest wild card

In the spirit of building through the draft, Booker is our baby cause we drafted him. This is supposed to be a rebuilding year so while a guy like Howard might start, its possible he might only play 20 or 25 minutes because they want to see guys like booker develop for the future.

Remember the begining of last year when even guys like Mike James got to play because Flip wanted to get a feel for the whole roster. Like I already said, don’t be surprised if alot of guys play until all star break. Once we get into the season and see what our best bets on the court are plus what our record is, our goals and values could change effecting who gets to play.

Comment from datonypony
Time August 30, 2010 at 8:04 PM

I expect 10 players to play each game as well… This ain’t last year when we were expecting to make playoffs.

Comment from Babakism
Time August 30, 2010 at 8:20 PM

has anyone checked out ESPNs trade machine??? its kind of cool

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time August 30, 2010 at 10:08 PM

neal — I’m sorry but Yi and Thornton *are* bad players. Not good players. Have never produced. Don’t get anything done. Period. End of story.

You can imagine anything you want. You can imagine that pigs grow wings. I see the bacon flying around my kitchen right now in my mind’s eye.

Why do you imagine NJ was willing to trade a guy that was picked 6th in the draft for a total nobody? And pony up the money to pay the guy’s salary too! They didn’t think they were sacrificing *anything at all* to let him go. Yet they made Josh Boone a $3m qualifying offer that tied up money towards their cap.

As to Al Thornton, he’s a nice guy. He’s 27. He’s about as good as Yi.

These guys are not good enough to compete successfully on a nightly basis for wins in the NBA, the premier league in the world. Doesn’t mean they aren’t good at all. Doesn’t mean they’ll never have a good game in the NBA either. Means that if you rely on them on a nightly basis you lose lots of games. The more you rely on them the more games you lose.

It’s more likely that Gil plays like he did in ’05-6 and ’06-7 when he was young and before he had ever been injured than for Thornton and Yi to suddenly become solid NBA players. Why would they? Because they put on Wizards uniforms? Because you *wish* they were good?

Comment from jeffmalone1990
Time August 30, 2010 at 10:18 PM

Okay I have to be honest, I do not believe Flip and any mention of an 8 man rotation! The players in camp will fight it out, and may the best man win PERIOD!

If we have a young and deep team, then play all that are active and give you the best chance of winning or being competitive.

Comment from Gotabigboyoffense
Time August 30, 2010 at 10:19 PM

Come on Tom M., get your head where it is supposed to be and out of that other place. Are you simply trying to entice responses from other bloggers? The Wizards, as presently constituted, are no worse than a 35 win team and more likely a 45+ win team. You have succeeded in criticizing every current Wizard player while exulting the credentials of every player that the Wizards have let go, or not drafted. You are constantly advocating for untried rookies at the expense of proven veterans. I am beginning to think that you believe that you actually have a shot at becoming the Wizards GM if only you can diminish the accomplishments of EG in order to replace him…dream on. I am beginning to agree with DCButler that your negativity is growing old quickly. Rebuilding does not mean starting from zero. It means building upon your positives while rejecting your negatives. Get on the wagon, my friend, or get run over by it!

Comment from Gotabigboyoffense
Time August 30, 2010 at 10:21 PM

Tom M. – Do you know any of the players personally so that you can decree that they are “nice guys”?

Comment from Gotabigboyoffense
Time August 30, 2010 at 10:25 PM

@jeffmalone1990 – You are positively correct, when coaching, I started every season with a philosophy regarding how the game would be played and, at least, 75% of the time that philosophy was changed because of the personnel with which I had to work. Any coach who does not recognize that the personnel dictates the system is a soon-to-be unemployed coach.

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time August 30, 2010 at 10:36 PM

Gotabig — my sense of Thornton as a “nice guy” comes from video interviews with him. I’ve also called him “intelligent” (really meaning “thoughtful”) based on the same videos.

No, my friend, just as the team you thought had the best roster in the league really didn’t, and really wasn’t the 60-win team you thought it was, so this team is not the 45 win, playoff-contending team you think it is.

I’m not negative about the Wizards *in the slightest* — I’m mightily excited about the new young draftees, I’m happy for our future. But we’re not a good team right now; we have just about the worst roster in the NBA right now.

I’m too old to want to be the Wizards GM — but remind me to tell you one day how I tried to get a job w/ the Warriors in 1980 — and if I was young enough, and that was the industry I wanted to work in, I wouldn’t go about it by calling a turkey a turkey on this blog when I could refer instead to “a bird with potential” (can head-butt the cranberry sauce!).

Let me ask you this: when what I’m saying comes true, will I be right then? Or will I still be wrong.

Gil was a terrific player — hope he comes back. Hinrich is an above-average NBA player. Wall has tremendous potential. Booker looks to me like a guy who will be a solid NBA pro. I think Seraphin has tremendous potential too. I’m patient with Dray’s development (still young). Ditto McGee — he’s not even 22. Are these “negative” sentiments?

Josh Howard is 30 and coming off of consecutive injuries. Guys like that usually don’t come back to what they were at 26. Is that negative? No, it’s just an observation of fact — give me a counter-example if you want to say I’m wrong. Doesn’t mean he’ll be a bad player, btw — did I say he would be?

Yi, Thornton, Young and Armstrong are *bad* players. They are also expiring salaries, and that’s one of the reasons I’m *not* negative about the Wizards.

I’ve said this a thousand times, so why not a thousand and one: it doesn’t matter to me that we’re going to win @ 20 games this year. We’ll be fun to watch; we’ll play hard; we have a bright future.

What’s negative about that?

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time August 30, 2010 at 10:38 PM

Ok, nighty-night you’all. In my dreams, Nick Young will turn it all around and prove me wrong.

I do have an idea, btw, of what could happen that would mean we’d win 30+ games. I have to work it out a little bit, and then I’ll post it tomorrow.

Comment from jeffmalone1990
Time August 30, 2010 at 10:44 PM

Camp will be very important this year, so as a fan I want to know 3 things:

What is the team identity for this upcoming season?

What are the short\long term goals for this season?

Who will be accountable if we fail or have success?

On a side note:

Who will become the leader of this roster?

Comment from gray16
Time August 30, 2010 at 10:44 PM

tom, i’m confused…

why does it seem to me that you are trying to equate how good a player is to how many wins the team will have?…

when you also say kevin love is one of the best players in league and his team couldn’t win a foot race with a car… his team relies on him quite a bit, but they don’t seem to be winning… what wins has he contributed to, or more simply put, what wins lol

a team wins because of how well it plays as a group, not because of how each player plays an individual. derek fisher’s stats are horrible, but his team still wins while relying on him for starting pg duties… because the team as a whole plays good together.

Comment from maggicman11
Time August 30, 2010 at 11:17 PM

Gabbo- dont worry about tom’s negativity. I have figured out that he just simply doesnt like certain players. has nothing to do with if they are a good player or not. for instance. lets take James singleton who tom seems to love and compare him to Al Thorton whom he says is a bad player.

Al Thorton avgs 10.7 pts per game
Singleton avgs 4.5

thorton shoots 47% from the field
singleton shoots 38%

thorton shoots 35% from 3pt land
singleton shoots 18%

singleton avgs 4.8 rbs
thorton avgs 3.9 rbs (with this i have to even it out because thorton mostly plays on the wing while singleton plays in the post, however thorton plays more minutes)

thorton 1.2 ast
singleton 0.5

Both these players are 6-8 and weigh just about the same. All the other stats are very close in comparisson. but clearly, if singleton were any other player with the same stats, tom would think he was a terrible player as well.

I did the same comparrison with Troy Murphy and Blatche.. Those two players are very close in numbers statistically, Blatche clearly is a MUCH better defensive player, and some how Blatche is still not as good as Murphy in tom’s eyes.. Its just players he simply doesnt like. but im not judging because im the same way, just not with our own players. I REALLY REALLY dont like Kenyon Martin! dont ask me why. lol

Comment from Babakism
Time August 30, 2010 at 11:28 PM

@JeffMalone we love ya buddy and we missed ya but you just asked questions that were answered over many blog topics this summer lol

Comment from GrifonRacing
Time August 31, 2010 at 12:40 AM

I have never been a fan of Mr. Jianlian’s. Apparently the Nets weren’t either. After watching a few of China’s games in the FIBA I’m starting to change my mind. Yi… forget the scoring… has been rebounding the ball much better than I ever thought he could. Who knew he could play inside? I know the FIBA is not the NBA, but, if Yi can carry his play over into our training camp I’m going to be liking it

Comment from GrifonRacing
Time August 31, 2010 at 12:44 AM

I don’t think Yi has an ice cubes chance at the 3, but, it IS an interesting thought. A 7 foot 3 Would Be Wild

Comment from GrifonRacing
Time August 31, 2010 at 12:47 AM

I like Josh Howard, but, you guys are talking like he is already back. He isn’t… not yet. And again I wonder if the “updated” rehab timeline was put in place by a medical staff or by his “Agent”???

Comment from GrifonRacing
Time August 31, 2010 at 12:51 AM

I don’t think Flip will have any specific rotation. I doubt he would handcuff himself into an 8 or 10 man rotation. Not when you are trying to evaluate all of the players. The same reason I don’t see anyone going to the D league this year. Hamady will “probably” play overseas a year or two while we still hold his rights. Probably not a bad idea.

Comment from GrifonRacing
Time August 31, 2010 at 12:55 AM

One thing is obvious about our team as it stands. We are going to be one very “fast” team. Wall is fast, but, Booker is faster. What opposing center wants to try to keep pace up and down the floor with either JaVale, Andray, or Seraphin? I doubt many.

Comment from GrifonRacing
Time August 31, 2010 at 12:59 AM

Wall has a tendency to make the players around him better. I’m guessing Tom’s bad players will turn into mediocre players (lol) with Mr. Wall directing the flow.

Comment from GrifonRacing
Time August 31, 2010 at 1:03 AM

I guess I can’t complain but with work it’s been hard for me to get on here lately before midnight

I’d much rather interact than the “catch up” posting I’ve been doing. I’m sure a lot of you don’t really care for the multiple posts. I apologize for that.

Comment from GrifonRacing
Time August 31, 2010 at 1:17 AM

One way I have an advantage on you guys though

It’s now 29 days until training camp starts instead of 30

Comment from dcbutler357
Time August 31, 2010 at 7:15 AM

Wiz87′s post on the last page makes for good conversation (gil restructuring his contract)

Comment from JWALL
Time August 31, 2010 at 7:38 AM

I have never seen such negative analysis of players who have not even played together as a team yet. This is a new season. Stop talking about so and so is not a good player. Any player who is able to make an NBA roster has to be good enough to make that team. Now how he performs only time will tell.
Some of you will eat crow on your predictions of how some players on the Wiz will do. I am from the school of positive thoughts. So I will wait for the season to unfold before I start bad mouthing any player on this roster who deserves it. Until then this is a new day.
Give this roster time and a break.
That is what rebuilding requires. Not commenting that this player is not a good player and that player is not good.
We should not past judgement on any of these players until they have had time to prove otherwise.
Where is your positive support for the Wizards.

Comment from JWALL
Time August 31, 2010 at 7:41 AM

Take that to the bank!

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time August 31, 2010 at 7:43 AM

Grifonracing — not to worry; your posts are welcome. Late night thoughts or not.

Am I *really* going to have to post a numbers comparison of Singleton and Thornton? I mean one that is accurate of course. Sigh… maybe later today.

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time August 31, 2010 at 7:51 AM

dcbutler — why would Gilbert restructure his contract? Why do we forget that this is *professional* basketball, not to mention that after their career is over they will never again earn this kind of money.

JWALL — I described my “positive support” for the Wizards in some detail a few posts above. I’m not going to defend my analysis of bad players; there’s no need to. As to eating crow, when *I am right*, not you, about the team’s win-loss record, are you going to eat crow?

But you are certainly right that to be on an NBA team, you have to be an extraordinarily good basketball player. Still, with almost 450 players in the league, there are fabulous, above average, average, below average, and non-contributing players. Can’t make that go away; sorry.

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time August 31, 2010 at 7:57 AM

On the other hand, it occurs to me that perhaps I’m actually *upsetting* someone — I mean in a serious way — by analyzing the way e.g. someone like Yi has actually played in his career. It’s just what interests me; perhaps I should be thinking more about the reactions others here might have to such things.

So, if I’ve somehow offended anybody, my apologies!

Comment from JWALL
Time August 31, 2010 at 8:00 AM

This will be the most challenging year of Flip’s career. He has to prove he can work withe talent he has been given. A very good coach is able to utilize the talents his players have and their buy in to his philosophy for the good of the teams success. It is not written in stone that he will have a 8 player rotation. It may be 9 or 10. It is up to Flip to find that out during training camp. One thing when you are rebuilding is that young players need to play. If certain young players don’t cut it. Then they have to move on. This is a business. Older players have to use their experience and desire to perform their very best so that the younger players can learn by example and mentorship from the older guys.
Some of you don’t see Gilbert as being a mentor on the court with John Wall. But I do. Gilbert when he is at his best is hwen he is into the game of basketball on the floor. Kirk Hinrich will be a good influence on John Wall but so will Gil. Gil played the point last for part of the season for Flip. So he has a better feel for the offense than Kirk does. So don’t count out Gil having a positive influence. The thing about fans in sports is all about what have you done for me lately.
So be ready for some pleasant surprises this year with the Wiz and wish them the best after all this could be Flip and EG’s last year if they don’t bring this thing together. The pressure is not on the players it is on Flip and EG to make this thing work. Their track record has not been that good in the past . But I believe they have tried to amke some improvements. Some you like, some you don’t. But we are on the sideline wishing and hoping for the best. I pray for no major injuries to anyone on our team and that those who are on the mend will come back full strength. Team chemisty and defense needs to be our focal point.
When it’s all said and done this time next year I believe a number of our personal perspectives on the success of the team will change for the better.

Comment from JWALL
Time August 31, 2010 at 8:07 AM

Tom I will eat crow, eagle and sparrow if what say about our record and certain players is true.
One thing about me is that I am accountable. If I miss it I will confess I missed it. But if I am correct in my outlook I will just say if you only believe.

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time August 31, 2010 at 8:09 AM

magicman continues to claim that Troy Murphy and Andray Blatche have similar stats.

He’s right.

For example, 12.7 rebounds per 40 minutes (what Murphy gets) and 9 rebounds per 40 minutes (what Dray gets) are very similar.

And, per 40 minutes, 16.3 points on 13.9 shots (what Murphy gets) and 17.2 points on 17.8 shots (what Dray gets) (takes Dray 4 more shots to get 1 more point) are also similar.

All the rest of the numbers are similar in the same way.

Comment from JWALL
Time August 31, 2010 at 8:19 AM

No need for apology Tom we all are just being ourselves and being unique in who all are as individuals. That is why this blog is so popular. I respect you sir and look forward to your comments. I am not going to fire back at any of you everytime you make a comment I don’t agree with. It is just that sometimes we stand up for what we believe in regards to the players and the team as a whole. It is just part of the blogging experience.

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time August 31, 2010 at 8:20 AM

JWALL writes: “One thing when you are rebuilding is that young players need to play.” Amen, brother.

I want to see Wall get more than 2500 minutes, Booker 2000 minutes (I hope!) and Seraphin at least 1000-1500 minutes (and more I hope — but he is likely to foul a lot).

JWALL — You’re talking turkey about eating crow if the guys take a swan dive, and what’s good for the goose is good for the gander. So I won’t be a chicken either. I’ll watch like a hawk, and if I am a dodo, I won’t duck — I’ll admit what a pigeon I was.

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time August 31, 2010 at 8:21 AM

Another amen JWALL’s way!

Comment from gray16
Time August 31, 2010 at 8:30 AM

again tom:

i’m confused…

why does it seem to me that you are trying to equate how good a player is to how many wins the team will have?…

when you also say kevin love is one of the best players in league and his team couldn’t win a foot race with a car… his team relies on him quite a bit, but they don’t seem to be winning… what wins has he contributed to, or more simply put, what wins lol

a team wins because of how well it plays as a group, not because of how each player plays an individual. derek fisher’s stats are horrible, but his team still wins while relying on him for starting pg duties… because the team as a whole plays good together.

Comment from Rick
Time August 31, 2010 at 8:30 AM

I don’t get this “per 40 minutes” method of status comparison. It’s as if the guys are robots and it doesn’t matter how many minutes they actually play or at what point in the game they play. If a guy comes in for the last minute of garbage time and makes an uncontested layup, I guess that means he scores 80 ppg (per 40 minutes). That’s inane.

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time August 31, 2010 at 8:42 AM

gray16 — great question. Thanks for repeating it. I have to head out now, but I’ll turn to it when I return from my workout. But here’s one thing to think about in the meantime:

Just as a player can contribute to wins, another player can contribute to losses.

Even if a guy does very well the main things that help a team to win (score efficiently and get your team extra possessions via rebounding, steals, and not turning it over), another guy can come along and do *negative* things that overpower what he’s done.

That’s why Kevin Garnett, as great as he was when in Minnesota, didn’t win much there. Didn’t make him a less good player.

Comment from Gotabigboyoffense
Time August 31, 2010 at 8:44 AM

@rick – the “per 40 minutes” is an attempt to statistically compare players based upon some equal footing. However, as you point out, it is a contrivance. Personally, I prefer to watch the game develop and see who contributes, and when they contribute. While a basket scored in the clutch and a basket scored in “garbage time” are both worth 2 points on the stat sheet, the basket scored in the clutch is certainly worth a heck of a lot more to the team. It is a short-coming of statistical analysis that it can’t take those types of things into consideration, and so it frequently ends up comparing apples to oranges…but with “proof” that they are both fruit.

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time August 31, 2010 at 8:44 AM

Rick — over a season, those things even out. Everyone gets a gimme here and there, and everyone has bad luck on something here and there. But you’re right — no one should assess a player on a small amount of playing time. Until a guy has logged 1000s of NBA minutes, you can’t really know how good he is.

Comment from draftazoid
Time August 31, 2010 at 8:59 AM

Flip Saunders interview on his preferred rotation by rotoevil.com last year.
Flip said:
“When you start playing too many players, what happens is no one gets in to any kind of flow. My philosophy’s always been you play eight players, nine and ten play when you have some foul trouble which you’re gonna usually have in a game. If you’re eleven and twelve, you better be working to get to nine and ten.”

So the fight will be to get into Flip’s 8 man rotation. 9 and 10 play because of foul trouble.
Words from the man himself.

Comment from Gotabigboyoffense
Time August 31, 2010 at 9:13 AM

SportzWiz – During an interview about two weeks ago, ‘Dray said that he expected the boot to be removed from his foot last week. Did that happen?

Comment from neal
Time August 31, 2010 at 9:15 AM

Tom (and others), lets remember we’re all just a bunch of opinionated fans. None of us has an open line to THE TRUTH and most of us will be dead wrong in most of our opinions.

One of my opinions is that chemistry is more important than most people think. It makes everyone on the team play 5% better, and that’s a big plus.

Regarding who’s going to lead, I sure hope Wall and Arenas become co-leaders – until Arenas is traded.

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time August 31, 2010 at 9:19 AM

Gotabig — you are *totally right*. Statistics can’t tell you everything you need to know by a long shot, and it is a great deal less interesting than the game itself!

Nonetheless, we *keep* statistics for players and teams for a reason, and they can tell you a lot (just not everything). Of course you have to figure out what numbers, understood how, really matter.

You start with the team — what team statistics correlate well with the team’s win-loss record?

To no one’s surprise, relative offensive efficiency and defensive efficiency correlate almost completely w/ win-loss record. If you list the teams in that order (per 100 possessions how many more points they score than they give up), it’s almost exactly the same order as if you list by win-loss record.

So then the question is “what contributes to positive differential?” It turns out that the biggest factors are 1) *efficient scoring* (the team’s FG% w/ 3s taken into account, its ability to get to the line, and FT% tell you how efficient the team is) and 2) getting extra possessions (rebounding, steals and not turning it over are how you increase your number of possessions). Nothing else matters nearly as much as those 2 overall factors — again it’s easy to see why.

When you ask how much an *individual player* contributes to team wins, you’re also asking how much does he contribute to that positive differential. Therefore, the first question is “how much does he contribute to efficient scoring and getting extra possessions?”

Now, a basketball team is made up of guys playing different positions. A guard isn’t going to get you as many extra possessions as a Center or PF, who is rebounding the ball a lot more often. And typically, 4s and 5s also shoot a higher FG% for obvious reasons. So there’s no straightforward way to ask e.g. who is better Kevin Garnett or Chauncy Billups. Lets leave that aside for a minute.

But given the above, it should be pretty easy to compare one 4 to another 4 — always assuming you have enough minutes for a player that you aren’t working with arbitrary numbers. And you do the comparison by looking at scoring efficiency and net extra possessions. Other things factor in as well, but less importantly.

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time August 31, 2010 at 9:25 AM

Gotabig — you are right, of course, that a bucket at the end of a game you’re winning (or losing) by a lot doesn’t mean much, and a clutch shot to help your team win means a lot.

That points to the importance of roles — you *need* shooters, no question. Guys with scoring mentality and who *like* to take tough shots.

But, first you have to be in position for that shot to matter. If you’ve been out-rebounded and shot a lower FG% than your opponent, then almost always you *aren’t* in that position. Hence, even though it isn’t immediately obvious, the “clutch shot” and the rebounding stats are *linked.*

Comment from gray16
Time August 31, 2010 at 9:26 AM

thinking more on the 8 man rotation:

i’m thinking what bench players would we NEED to play, given that arenas, blatche, and howard were healthy. given that they are healthy, and flip decided to start them, your lineup is

wall, gil, howard, blache, mcgee

mcgee will obviously need rest, so armstrong is one of the 8 automatically. blatche played 40 mpg towards the end of last season, so a backup pf isn’t worried about at the moment, but since both thornton and booker can play at both positions, there is your back up 3 and 4, making one of them another one of the 8. and then theres the obvious hinrich, who will be a part of the 3 guard rotation.

so wall, gil, howard, blatche, mcgee, hinrich, thornton, and armstrong will probably be the top 8, with booker and yi being 9 and 10. 11 and 12 will be young and seraphin i guess.

mabye flip will still use this rotation to see if it motivates his players off the court to get better and get into the rotation, or mabye he just experiments all season long. i see him experimenting in the beggining anyway, since he doesn’t know what he’s got, but 20 games in he will probably have an 8 man rotation that he will go off of.

Comment from draftazoid
Time August 31, 2010 at 9:31 AM

Tom and Gotabig,

The NBA also has another incredible factor when figuring out how good a player actually is:
DID THE PLAYER PLAY WITH A SUPERSTAR?

We will actually get to see the shooting percentages of the individual Cleveland Cavaliers PLUMMET incredibly this year because Lebron is not there.
Teams will no longer leave Mo Williams and others wide open because they are not double teaming Lebron.

Trevor Ariza went from .460 to a mismal .394 when he left Kobe and the Lakers for the Rockets.
Mike Miller hit .501 last year with the Wizards. How high is he going to shoot this year?

So when you look at players stats in the NBA, don’t forget to look to see if a Superstar is on the team and make adjustments (I don’t know how you would do it) accordingly.

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time August 31, 2010 at 9:36 AM

So roles are important, but one role shouldn’t obscure another one. Yes, there has to be someone to step up and take a clutch shot (either make or miss but be ready to take another one either way). But once you tease out from team stats the individual stats that contribute to wins, you see that the efficiency and net possession stats are what make clutch shots possible.

That’s why Bill Russell was one of the handful of greatest players ever, even though he didn’t take any clutch shots — or many shots at all!

Comment from Babakism
Time August 31, 2010 at 9:38 AM

@Tom Can you count on Troy Murphy to be a disruptive on ball/back low post defender like you can with Andray? (god this topic is so dead won’t any of us ever let it go myself included lol)

Comment from crozby
Time August 31, 2010 at 9:38 AM

We could really have an 11 man rotation. Starters: Wall, Gil, Howard, Blatche, McGee; and bench: Hinrich, Young, Thornton, Yi. Plus, at times I would expect Booker to be brought in to guard certain players depending on the team we are playing, and Armstrong will likely relieve McGee at times. That’s 11. However, if we got Hudson (with his speed and quickness) to back up Wall, and Cartier (with his great outside shooting) we could potentially play more players on any given night and always have a fresh team on the floor. Phil Jackson plays 10-11 players each night and it works. Hopefully, Flip comes up with a rotation formula that works also. Again, that’s the advantage of having at least 9 players on the team that each scored 20+ points multiple times last year in regular season games. Heck, we could just about play the entire team each night! That’s how you make younger players better.

Comment from Babakism
Time August 31, 2010 at 9:41 AM

@draftazoid that was one of my arguments about Nick Young being not much worse of a player than JR Smith cause he got to play with Chauncey and Melo. Hell even Nene in the post when he is healthy makes other players better.

Comment from draftazoid
Time August 31, 2010 at 9:47 AM

Bill Russell is not a very good person to use for Statistical purposes.

Did you know that every team Bill Russell played from his Rookie year on had at least 4 Hall of Famers on it. Some teams had 6 Hall of Famers. One team, the 1960-1961 NBA champion Boston Celtics had 7 (WOW!) Hall of Famers on that team.
Pretty easy to get great stats when your 2 players off teh bench are in the Hall of Fame.

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time August 31, 2010 at 9:48 AM

draftazoid — I love the way you make stuff up!!

Ariza shot a higher FG% in his years with the Magic than he did in his time with the Lakers. What happened when he went to the Rockets last year is that he *took more shots* than he’d ever taken before, and his efficiency fell.

He also rebounded less last year than with the Lakers — is that also because Kobe wasn’t around?

Comment from Babakism
Time August 31, 2010 at 9:49 AM

@Rick per 36 40 and 48 minutes are not good indicators of production of guys who play 5 minutes a game.

But when you are trying to compare 2 players with similar numbers but one plays 18 minutes a game and the other 22. the 22 minute guy might have slightly better numbers but when you compare what they would average per 36 minutes the 18 minute guy might have the same averages or perhaps better averages making him the more efficient or better player.

To break it down even more the 22 minute guy might be playing behind a rookie so he gets a few extra minutes while the 18 minute guy is playing behind an established player so he gets less minutes. In order to get the correct value of what the players produce you need equal minutes and no one wants to do the math to determine a plays 22 minute stats lol

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time August 31, 2010 at 9:51 AM

Another extraordinary remark from draftazoid!! Now Tommy Heinsohn put Bill Russell in the HoF. Yikes!

Comment from Babakism
Time August 31, 2010 at 9:51 AM

I decided to repost what I posted on the previous blog about Gilbert Arenas being selfish and restructuring his contract

Half the money players make and sometimes more comes from shoe deals and comercials ect ect. Gil lost all of that. I seriously doubt he would restructure his contract right now when this is his only source of income. Yes I know he has more money than he actually needs but it would be dumb for him to do so.

After Gil makes the All-Star team he might be just enough of a class act to restructure his deal as an apology once he starts getting some of those endorsements back.

Funny how everyone calls Gil greedy when………..

1)Gil earned his contract through his play resurrecting this franchise.

2)Unlike Albert Haynesworth he is a very nice guy who has given so much to our community. He cares about his past actions and wants to be loved by everyone.

3)Gil took less money than what we offered him to give us some extra financial flexibility. We could be sitting here talking about 90 million left on his contract as opposed to 80. Joe Johnson didn’t care enough to do that for the hawks and now they are dealing with Jamal Crawford wanting to be traded because the team can’t offer him an extension because they need the money to sign Al Horford.

Obviously we have wasted 31 mil on Gilbert already but if we make the playoffs and are competitive over the next 4 years with Gil making every all star game wouldn’t the final 80 mil be worth it?????

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time August 31, 2010 at 9:55 AM

Babakism is right about using stats for guys who only play a little. They don’t mean much. For statistics to be meaningful they have to be measured over a lot of minutes. Moreover, statistics for guys who play small minutes can hide anomalies — if a guy gets 7 fouls every 15 minutes, he is obviously never going to do much for you!

But Babakism is wrong to keep bringing up the dead subject of Murphy vs. Blatche. Let it lie. Otherwise you get tempted to call Andray Blatche “a disruptive defender”, something I’ve really *never* heard before!

Comment from maggicman11
Time August 31, 2010 at 9:59 AM

Well the most IMPORTANT factor in a players game is not shown up in statistics. and thats how well that player plays defense. if you can hold teams to 80 points every night then you dont have to have a great scoring team, and you can still win. defense wins championships, not offense, although it surely doesnt hurt. =) but this is the reason the warriors and suns never make it far in the playoffs, or even to the playoffs in the warriors case. No defense.. The main reason Ron Artest and *good Player* are ever mentioned in the same sentence. Good Defense. the reason the pistons shocked the lakers with their stacked team, defense. same with the celtics.. The reason Troy Murphy is *no where near* as good as Blatche… Defense! if only stats could talk about defense..

but with Wall, who is an above average defender at the 1.. Blatche down low, and if mcGee can finally hold his position with that extra 7lbs of muscle he gained in the offseason we should be a solid defensive, fast breaking team. not to mention Howard when he returns.

Comment from crozby
Time August 31, 2010 at 9:59 AM

Nick Young needs to get a lot of playing time at the 3. He can shoot. You have to keep multiple outside shooting threats on the floor at all times with the team we have this year. That spreads the defense for penetration by our super quick guards (Wall and Gil), and opens up more down low for McGee and Blatche. That’s the key. Keeping the defense spread. Think about it, no team will want to leave shooters like Nick, Kirk, Yi, and Cartier out on the wings to burn them. That’s suicide.

Comment from draftazoid
Time August 31, 2010 at 9:59 AM

Tom, so Kobe had absolutely “ZERO” influence on Ariza shooting .460 playing with the Lakers and .394 with the rockets and no superstar.

That is the most absurb statement I have heard you make.

I am sorry that your statistical analysis does not take into account the teams or players happen to play with.

If that’s the case you can just throw out all your stats because they don’t mean anything.

So Mario Chalmers will shoot close to .401 this coming year even though he is going to also be playing with Lebron and Bosh on the team.?

That is just pretty naive.

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time August 31, 2010 at 9:59 AM

gray16 — I tried to answer your question at least partially in the last few posts I wrote. Have I helped?

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time August 31, 2010 at 10:07 AM

draftazoid — you do realize that we can actually *track* guys numbers as they go from team to team, right?

And that people have actually *done this,* right? Have you actually *looked at* Ariza’s numbers over his career? Or is it all just one data point to you, and that’s that?

Wasn’t Mo Williams your other big example? Now that LBJ is gone his FG% will “PLUMMET” — I think that’s the word, all in caps, that you used.

Wow, I guess maybe you didn’t notice that he shot 48% w/ the Bucks the year before he went to Cleveland, then shot 46.7% and 44% w/ Cleveland. So playing with a superstar really pushed his FG% up, huh?

You’re making it up. Maybe if you overstate it even a little further (“throw out all your stats”), really amp it up, you can keep convincing yourself?

Comment from maggicman11
Time August 31, 2010 at 10:11 AM

Just like stats dont tell you about defense.. this whole per 40 that some of us seem to love, in order to even the playing field, doesnt tell why one player doesnt see as much playing time as another. so while one player has better stats… the other player doesnt play quite as many minutes and has a better per 40. meanwhile the stats dont show that the reason the other player doesnt avg as many minutes per game is because players are scoring on him left and right. he is making bad decisions or simply not playing within themselves. or pehaps the player is not in good condition and cant play long stretches of minutes without getting winded. those things dont show up either.. so i discount the per 40 minute stats as well, and try to look at what their stats ACTUALLY ARE, and not what they coulda, woulda, shoulda been, had they played 40 minutes a game every night. which i dont think anyone in the NBA does. I mean just because you score 20 points and grab 10 rbs in 20 minutes doesnt mean you would avg double those points and double those rbs if you had double the time. it just doesnt.. this is where stamina kicks in.. the per 40 stat is just not accurate in so many ways..

Comment from gray16
Time August 31, 2010 at 10:18 AM

tom, i’m done with that argument, because it’s going to lead down a path we have visited before and it didn’t end in an agreement lol. in a way you are right though, i agree that the more a team relies on bad players, the less chance it has at success. the disagreement usually comes when we consider great, good, and bad players, so i’ll just agree to disagree before we even reach that point.

as for trevor ariza, playing with the lakers (not kobe, but the lakers) was a much better role for him than in houston. in houston he got the green light to chuck up shots, and his game suffered from it. he’s not a guy to lead a team, he’s a role player.

as for mo williams, he’s been the same player for a long time, the media just started hyping him up when he got to a good team, which usually happens with a lot of players. mike miller will definitely get more praise on the heat than he ever did here in washington.

Comment from gray16
Time August 31, 2010 at 10:24 AM

as for the per 40 stat, i don’t find it to be coulda woulda shoulda anymore…

the problem is, it takes one player a couple of games to get 40 minutes while another gets it in one game. and the nba is played in games, not in 40 minutes segments. and the goal is to win the game. so per 40 doesn’t really mean much to me if a player can’t get those stats in a game, which matters the most.

so while a player can get more rebounds per minute, or rebound at a higher rate, if he isn’t getting 10 rebounds a game, he’s not helping his team as much as the guy that did imo.

and then there’s always the per 40 problem of bench players vs starters, where the bench player is getting his numbers against lower competition than the starter did.

Comment from draftazoid
Time August 31, 2010 at 10:28 AM

Here is what I am making up:
Trevor Ariza. Please compare 2008-2009 with Lakers and 2009-2010 with the Rockets. (actual stats from a statistical website):
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/arizatr01.html

I did not give stats for Mo Williams. I just said his shooting percentage along with the rest of the Cavaliers will PLUMMET without Lebron not there.
So Tom, You do not think their shooting percentage will go down? (probably because you do not have a formula for it).

Not taking into account who a player played with when doing a statistical analysis is just downright wrong and gives a false reading on a players performance.

I guess I am just NAIVE to think that Bill Russell will not have the exact same statistics in 1960-1961 when he played on a team with 7 Hall of Famers as he would if we substituted the 1960-1961 New York Knicks who only won 22 games?

From a Statistical Analysis view point we would use the word “SKEWED”

Comment from maggicman11
Time August 31, 2010 at 10:28 AM

gray16- i agree somewhat, but i think playing with LeBron really hurt Mo williams… as it did shaq, and jamison too.. Lebron is TOO dominant a player to have other good players around him. I think he needs other dominant players, like a.. oh i dont know, wade and bosh. or players who will just let him do everything like he wants to do.

Ariza started getting recgonition while with the lakers. his game improved that year, but it improved because he had a very specific role with the lakers and he did that role VERY well. so when he went to the rockets that role expanded and he was unable to produce at the same level. he is the type of player that plays well off of another player. like a Larry huges. cant do it himself, but if you give him someone he can playoff, he might be very good.

Comment from gray16
Time August 31, 2010 at 10:37 AM

magicman, you are forgetting a very important part of a team’s strategy… the coach.

mike brown drew up the playbook. every play involved either lebron or shaq isolating with everyone else standing around for open 3s, with the rest of the plays being lebron pick and rolls. mike brown made lebron too dominant, not lebron.

i don’t expect mo or jamison to play much worse offensively than they have in their careers this season, especially since they have a new coach. but i do expect the defense to suffer, and the entire team to play worse. like i said, i see the wizards having a similar if not better record than the cavs this season. their best players are mo williams, jamison, and varejao… all of the guys without lebron were on losing teams, so how are they going to win without him?… if they do, byron scott will have pulled off one of the best coaching jobs in nba history.

Comment from draftazoid
Time August 31, 2010 at 10:49 AM

My statistical analysis point is very simple using common sense:

Who would have a better shooting percentage?

Trevor Ariza playing with Kobe Bryant
or
Trevor Ariza playing with Carl Landry

The facts from Basketball-Reference.com:
Trevor Ariza in 2008-2009 shot .460 with the Lakers
Trevor Ariza in 2009-2010 shot .394 with the Rockets

Reason:
Teams will leave Ariza open to double Kobe Bryant.
Teams will not leave Ariza open to double Carl Landry

I did not make up the stats. You can look it up.
I really don’t care what Ariza did before 2008-2009. That is not part of my Statistical Analysis and is irrelevant for this point.

Comment from maggicman11
Time August 31, 2010 at 10:53 AM

gray16- you are right my friend.. thats why mike brown is history.. im sure jamison will have his best year this year. not having caron to take all the shots. or gil for that matter.. same for Mo. but they will not be nearly as good.

Comment from gray16
Time August 31, 2010 at 10:57 AM

draftazoid:

1) landry was a sixth man for the rockets, most of ariza’s minutes were played without landry on the floor

2) i take it you haven’t seen landry play. dude’s a problem, all we praise blatche for, he showed last season as well. he’s a better low post player than blatche is at the moment, and yes, when he gets is going, teams will double him.

3) they doubled off of ariza because on the lakers he was the least offensively talented guy on the court at most times. on the rockets, even if landry was getting doubled, the second man was probably coming off of other players.

4) again, watch out for landry. him and cousins could wind up being one of the pf/c combinations in the league in the future.

Comment from crozby
Time August 31, 2010 at 11:11 AM

Maggicman, if only Jamison would play defense, he may get somewhere. We are going to be better this year because we won’t have his (or Caron’s) lackluster defense. I found this article from last year on the “NBA No-Defense Team of the Year: http://blogs.mercurynews.com/kawakami/2009/05/08/my-second-annual-nba-no-defense-team-starring-martin-jamison-durant-and-don-nelson/

What’s interesting is that Al Thornton was at the top of that list also (first team, with Jamison). These stats were for the 2008-2009 season. We may need to keep Thornton off the floor more than I thought.

Comment from Rick
Time August 31, 2010 at 11:24 AM

I understand why someone would want to accurately compare the stats of a guy who plays 18 minutes with a guy who plays 22 minutes, but in my opinion that is invalid. You simply cannot extrapolate production like that.

I think there should be an unwritten (or WRITTEN) rule on this blog, that you can voice whatever opinion you want about any player you want. But DO NOT try to convince anyone that your opinion is FACT because of some personal and arbitrary interpretation of statistics.

Comment from Rick
Time August 31, 2010 at 11:26 AM

Stating opinions as OPINIONS = ADULT

Stating opinions as FACTS = CHILD

Comment from Gotabigboyoffense
Time August 31, 2010 at 12:59 PM

Rick – We all know that we never let facts get in the way of our opinion.

Comment from dcbutler357
Time August 31, 2010 at 1:13 PM

ROFL…Okay, we need a ten-count, names which are not on birth certificates are being called in a passive manner….LOL…

Comment from maggicman11
Time August 31, 2010 at 1:18 PM

I noticed Troy Murphy was on the All-NBA “No Defense” second team. lol… i dont know why i cant just let this die.. sorry guys!

Comment from Babakism
Time August 31, 2010 at 2:22 PM

@Tom Blatche has not shown consistant night in night out D but he has shown in quite a few games that he is up for the Defensive challenge of shutting down the others teams big. I’m speaking mostly of potential for Blatche but at least he has potential unlike Murphy

Comment from Babakism
Time August 31, 2010 at 2:26 PM

I think the lack of Jamison in our lineup this year will help us just as much as the return of Gil and the coming of Wall.

Jamison always hurt us on D and was a selfish offensive player who took alot of bad shots.

We did win games and were competitive because he was able to score alot of points but we never could have won a championship with him as our starting PF

You live and die playing that style of Ball