Comment from Tom Mandel
Time July 24, 2008 at 12:27 PM

This deal reflects a changing position of the US in the global economy, much more than NBA basketball. When the Euro was first created, it had a value of about 89 cents; now it has a value verging on (maybe more than?) $1.50.

If European basketball teams are willing to pay top-level NBA players *much more* than they can get in the NBA, then we will lose lots of those players. “Gold standards” like all other standards can shift and change.

Now, this one deal is not an indication that those teams *will* pay more than a few guys — it’s not clear that they have the markets and products to do that. But, this deal does indicate change. In other words, “the level of concern” should be *high* not low.

Comment from SportzWiz
Time July 24, 2008 at 1:05 PM

If you see the players that are leaving you are not seeing stars by any means, you are seeing guys that are looking for options and are willing to travel abroad for those options.

Now if a big star player that is a free agent and is commanding serious money from lots of suitors turns down those options for a big contract overseas that would be a high level of concern.

Comment from jmpalomo
Time July 24, 2008 at 1:32 PM

Great news for the Wizards!
No Josh Childress helping the hawks or another easter team.

Comment from jmpalomo
Time July 24, 2008 at 1:38 PM

This deal forces the Hawks to someday trade Childress to the team of his choosing. He can just keep playing overseas until the right situation develops for himself. Atlanta will have to deal him or give him some huge, huge money if they want to cash in on their investment 4 years ago by selecting him.
My bet is that Atlanta signs and then trades him next year.

Comment from jmpalomo
Time July 24, 2008 at 1:56 PM

The one trend that I see if a “whole” lot of Josh Childresses left the NBA for the Olympiacos of the world is that instead of getting a quality reserve or 5th starter like Childress coming into the game you will instead get Mario West or Jeremy Richardson to play.
The GAP between the superstars and the rest of the players will show up a whole lot more.

Comment from millie mill
Time July 24, 2008 at 2:36 PM

This was a big surprise to me. To have the other players (Bostjan Nachbar, Juan Carlos Navarro and Jorge Garbajosa and Carlos Delfino) leaving no big deal. But an born bread American that at the top of the free agents, big surprise!

I don’t no if you guys look at highlights flims on youtube but here are a few.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XYFEo-v3QgY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-NGo8RO23tE

Comment from neal
Time July 24, 2008 at 3:43 PM

I think Litvin is just trying to put a company “spin” on the situation. Logically, basketball talent is to become a more global commodity. While for a while the big names will still want to play here (the most competitive venue), things are gradually changing. And I can’t say that’s bad. Depends on where you live. It’s just what is. The talent will gradually get spread out. It’s probably good for the game in the long run. Maybe we lose fewer fans to NASCAR and “ultimate fighting”.

Comment from jmpalomo
Time July 24, 2008 at 4:07 PM

People are going to work where the money is.
That is the bottom line. There may be a very few exceptions (Teddy Bruschi).
But when push comes to shove “SHOW ME THE MONEY.”
Miguel Tejada to the Orioles, Johnny Damon from the world champion Redsox to the hated Yankees ($15 million more reasons to switch for Johnny).

Comment from SportzWiz
Time July 24, 2008 at 4:36 PM

Neal, personally i LOVE ultimate fighting.

As far as going where the money is, the money will always be good at the NBA, and the competition will always be the best as well. Its why the nba isnt worrying too much. A few players might not going abroad for big pay days but most will A. Want to stay in the states and B. play against the best players in the world.

Comment from neal
Time July 24, 2008 at 7:41 PM

So now we know why SportzWiz is slacking off. Don’t look for anything during an “ultimate fighting” bout.

Your two points are probably valid for the stars that are rich anyway, but for the rest I think the there’s going to be competition for services that they will be interested in.

Comment from wizards_fusion
Time July 24, 2008 at 7:52 PM

It is my understanding that Childress can opt out after each year if he decides to come back to the NBA. However, at the guarantee amount he’s getting from the Grecian team, I doubt he’ll be back in the NBA soon (unless some team overpays for him).

Comment from wizbulletman0
Time July 24, 2008 at 8:59 PM

Hey guys here is idea you can think about. Maybe the reason why EG has been quiet and has not made any kind of trade is because he is looking to deal for someones 2008 draft pick which cant be traded until 30 days after they sign.

Any thoughts….

Comment from neal
Time July 24, 2008 at 10:54 PM

I doubt it, wizbulletman0. I don’t think he’s looking for any more young guys to develop. I think he’ll stand pat. Which is a whole lot better than making a trade based on wishful thinking, like others have done, and like we did in the Unseld days. On the other hand, we might add a low salaried SG by FA or trade for one with Pecherov or Songaila.

Comment from jmpalomo
Time July 24, 2008 at 11:08 PM

Childress left for a difference of only $1 million dollars a year.
Sportswiz, although players want to play here because it is America and the players are better but money talks. Redsox fans were pissed off because Damon left for only $3 million a year difference. That still is alot of money.
All Atlanta had to probably do was match the offer. They have no one else to blame but themselves for letting him get away.
They probably thought they could get away with it because of the small difference.
I’d go to Greece if they would pay me $1,060,000 instead of the $60,000 I make now.
A million is a million. That is a whole lot of money.

Comment from wizbulletman0
Time July 25, 2008 at 1:06 AM

neal: how bout this

wiz trade: pecherov, 09 1st

nuggets trade: kleiza

we need SF depth and kleiza would is someone who could be a great backup to butler.
I know some think Dmac, with a good showing in vegas, can assume the backup SF role, but it was just SL.

I dont know is denver would do it but the 09 1st could being enticing.
thoughts…..

Comment from jmpalomo
Time July 25, 2008 at 1:34 AM

No one wants Pecherov.
He hasn’t proven a thing.
Drafted 3 years ago and can’t get on the floor.

Comment from GrifonRacing
Time July 25, 2008 at 1:47 AM

I’m getting on board the Bonzi Wells express. He would be a good 2/3 back up for us. We would lose no toughness when Deshawn or Caron had to sit. He is a veteran we could probably get for league minimum. He plays great defense, has a pretty good handle, and shoots good (when on).

The more I think about it Tom the more I like it (Antawn and Caron could keep him “in line”)

Comment from GrifonRacing
Time July 25, 2008 at 1:53 AM

No Way I’m giving up either Pesherov or Songaila. Pesherov needs to get that ankle healthy so we can see the game he had summer league last year. Songaila just keeps getting better the longer he wears a Wizards jersy. He may be the only defender we have that can consistently keep the opposing guards from driving the paint? His offense keeps getting better as he goes. No Changes…. One Addition

Comment from neal
Time July 25, 2008 at 8:00 AM

Wizbulletman0, I don’t know enough about Kleiza to know whether that’s a good deal. I do believe that we’re not really in trouble at the 3. If McGuire isn’t what he seems, Blatche can spell Butler like he did last year.

If McGuire IS what he seems then Blatche, Songaila and Pecherov will fight for minutes behind Jamison. I presume Blatche will win, in spite of the fact that I like Songaila.

So….if McGuire IS what he seems and Young ISN’T what we hoped, we have two guys who won’t be getting minutes at the 4 and a big hole at the 2 where Mason left.

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time July 25, 2008 at 8:37 AM

Childress left for a bottom-line difference of 3.5m/year — not 1m.

No one will trade anything for Pecherov. Forget about it. Lets see whether he can play first.

I think Bonzi Wells would be a *great* addition to our team — if he has a serious interest in resurrecting his career.

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time July 25, 2008 at 8:47 AM

We may well stand pat, it’s true. Ernie thinks we have a 50 win team. I’ll believe that when we make 50 wins.

Comment from gbkdc
Time July 25, 2008 at 9:21 AM

Has anyone here ever BEEN to Greece? If so, you won’t wonder why anyone would want to play there! I would move there in a heartbeat for half what I make here! It is absolutely gorgeous. Nice people, great food, beautiful country, islands, etc.

Comment from jg004
Time July 25, 2008 at 11:28 AM

I don’t know if anyone has mentioned it already, but has anyone thought of the possibility of picking up a guy like Robert Horry. I heard that he doesn’t think he will be back with the Spurs this year and I don’t think that he could be that expensive (assuming he doesn’t retire, which is probably a very highly possibility). I mean we keep talking about how we need depth at the SF position so what better way to fill it with a guy coming off the bench who seems to win everywhere he goes and sure kows how to hit a big shot. Just throwing it out there.

Comment from rgz
Time July 25, 2008 at 2:52 PM

As gbkdc said, there are more reasons to move to Greece or somewhere nice in Europe. Cities with lots of historical sites and museums, nightlife, food, etc. I’ve only been to Netherlands, Germany & Italy, but gorgeous places with a different culture & language!

I think most contracts foreign players (Americans in Greece, Spaniards in Russia, Serbs in Israel, etc) have entitles them to free apartment and free car for the duration of the season. There are less games to play in a shorter season, probably less than 50 for the teams that get to EuroLeague instead of 82. Even less for the next tier teams. So their bodies are less beat up.

I don’t know if all of the foreign players are given tax-free contracts, but Childress supposedly will not pay Greek taxes. (He will still pay some amount of USA taxes, Medicare, SS).
This is a nice photo gallery of Americans in Euroleague
The first one was Bill Bradley former US Senator and NBA star in Italy!
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=Euro-Bradley

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time July 25, 2008 at 4:24 PM

Delonte West, Andris Biedrins — also talked about as possibly in Europe next year.

Comment from SportzWiz
Time July 25, 2008 at 7:09 PM

West and Biedrins are both restricted free agents.

Comment from neal
Time July 25, 2008 at 8:31 PM

Horry will be 38 next month. I’d much rather give the SF back-up minutes to McGuire or Blatche so they can develop. Even it we win a game or two less. I think we need to give Blatche and McGuire the opportunity to realize their full potential while Arenas and Butler are still in their prime if we’re going to compete with the top teams.

Comment from tyrone20000
Time July 25, 2008 at 9:10 PM

Anyone knows what will happen to Wizards radio broadcasts now that Redskins Radio has taken control?

Comment from wizfan and the kid
Time July 25, 2008 at 10:13 PM

I wonder how long it will be before we see a “Lou Dobbs” story on this topic!

Seriously, this issue shows us exactly what we actually have in Gilbert Arenas. I’ll bet that Gilbert would do fine living overseas. He might have been a “huge”personality. He opted for less money and to help out his team. I know some will say that at his contract taking a bit less is no big deal, but obviously, to some, it is.

Another comment about Darius: When the kid and I went to the final 7-8 games of the season, Darius was awfully good. He also has that “knock someone down” streak in him that sends messages, as well. He is a great example of a role player that championship teams need. He plays smart, knows when to foul and can hit his free throws. Oh, and he doesn’t “need” to score. I wonder of his “wages of wins” numbers are any good, Tom?

Pesh is just an unknown right now. None of us really know what he can do because we really haven’t seen it. I just worry that this foot issue will continue on and on…

As to Bonzi Wells… I am not so sure. Yes, he is a vet, but I really don’t know if he can turn back the clock and become a decent player again. He seems to carry some pretty big baggage that we would not really want. What about a guy like Kirk Snyder if he is not picked up by someone else and will take a minimum salary, or maybe Casey Jacobsen? Or maybe nobody and we just stand pat…………

Comment from bassguy4
Time July 26, 2008 at 1:28 AM

Yahoo sports said that Michael Finley from the Spurs is a possibility, although he is 35

Comment from nickman
Time July 26, 2008 at 12:38 PM

I think Michael Finley would be a good veteran presence as well as a great replacement for Roger. All teams that make it to the ship has some sort of veteran experience. i.e. PJ Brown.

Comment from neal
Time July 26, 2008 at 1:11 PM

Finley makes sense to me. I’d rather have that known quantity than the unknown of Pecherov. Brown will be 39 in October and shot 34% last year and is a PF. No point in trading an over-the-hill PF for one that has potential.

Comment from nickman
Time July 26, 2008 at 1:24 PM

I don’t want PJ Brown I was just saying that he helped the Celtics, more then any one expected. Finley is proven and his numbers are pretty much the same if not better then rogers numbers. But how much would Finley be worth.

Comment from nickman
Time July 26, 2008 at 1:26 PM

PJ helped in the playoffs and that is where veteran leadership and saavyness is needed

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time July 26, 2008 at 3:13 PM

SportsWiz — good point about Biedrins, et. al. being restricted. I wonder what sort of legal issues would arise if a restricted FA decided to go play in Europe. Obviously, it’s not a *league* issue, but it is a *legal* issue all the same. A contract issue.

Finley — what an interesting idea! I wonder why he’d want to come play here, however.

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time July 26, 2008 at 3:17 PM

Actually, this story about Deng and Europe seems to indicate that being restricted is not a problem. European teams are not bound by the Collective Bargaining Agreement.

Comment from Reuben
Time July 26, 2008 at 8:59 PM

Finley would not be a bad addition but it might be hard to get him minutes and get him used to the system. I don’t want PJ Brown I don’t think he would help us

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time July 27, 2008 at 1:24 PM

From the Boston Globe:

“Gary Forbes wishes what happened in Vegas stayed in Vegas.

“The former UMass star gave himself an “F” when asked about his performance with the Wizards’ entry in the recent Vegas Summer League. Forbes averaged 3.8 points and shot 28 percent in five games.

“It definitely wasn’t my best performance, period,” said Forbes, last season’s Atlantic 10 Player of the Year. “This is the worst I’ve played in a long time. But it made me a better player with this experience. I’m learning.”

“The 6-foot-7-inch, 220-pound Forbes averaged 19.4 points last season in leading the Minutemen to the NIT championship game. After strong performances at predraft camps in Orlando, Fla., and Portsmouth, Va., Forbes was projected as a second-round pick, but was not selected.

“There is no way to describe [going undrafted],” Forbes said. “I stopped watching the draft around [pick] 48, 49.”

“Prior to the Vegas Summer League, one NBA source said Forbes would likely be invited to the Wizards’ training camp and had a shot at making the team. But after his poor performance, the source said it’s doubtful he will even get the invitation. Forbes said he has nothing lined up overseas and hasn’t considered playing in the NBA Development League.”

Comment from wizbulletman0
Time July 27, 2008 at 6:30 PM

any body up for this:

AD for Jason Kapono

why?
We need a backup sf, he can be that shooter that RMJ left with off the bench.
Toronto needs another PG, the only one on their roster is calderon and AD would be an excellent backup to him.

If the trade goes down, we would probably need to sign/trade for another vet.
maybe take a gamble on shaun livingston with the rest of our money under the tax.

thoughts

Comment from GrifonRacing
Time July 27, 2008 at 7:08 PM

It was very unfortunate for Gary Forbes and for the Wizards that his “normal” game didn’t follow him to Vegas. I hope somebody takes a chance on him. Had he played up to his abilities with us in Vegas he may have been the 2/3 backup we were looking for.

Comment from GrifonRacing
Time July 27, 2008 at 7:17 PM

Jason Kapono is a “shooter” only. Do we need another shooter and are we willing to give up Daniel’s skill set to get him? Kapono doesn’t rebound. His turnover to assist ratio is about 1 to 1. If we desperately needed a shooter I’d say yes but I don’t think we really do. Note I said he is a shooter and not a scorer. He almost never drives to the basket. Daniels probably draws 3 to 4 times the the number of fouls Kapono does.

Comment from GrifonRacing
Time July 27, 2008 at 7:22 PM

The earlier Micheal Finley comments are interesting. How much would he cost? I’d like to have him, but, not to the point of losing anybody from the team.

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time July 27, 2008 at 8:22 PM

Jason Kapono makes *no* sense for the Wizards. Plus, there is almost no trade I’d make that meant giving away Antonio.

I agree that it’s too bad Gary Forbes underperformed. But, realize that the competition was tougher in Las Vegas than in the Orlando and Portsmouth pre-draft camps where he played so well.

Comment from neal
Time July 27, 2008 at 8:26 PM

Well, I think we have a consensus on Finley. Someone call Ernie.

Comment from neal
Time July 27, 2008 at 9:57 PM

Finley is a FA and he’s 35. Presumably we can get him for the minimum, which we could fit under the luxury tax ceiling.

Comment from GrifonRacing
Time July 27, 2008 at 10:27 PM

I’m up for Finley first and Bonzi Wells second . Wells if and only if he has his head on straight these days. Finley could be a very good addition. I didn’t realize he was available.

Comment from GrifonRacing
Time July 27, 2008 at 10:34 PM

The only trade I would make for Antonio is even up for Steve Nash. But, then Nash is a year older than Antonio? Phoenix may have to throw in Amare

Comment from nickman
Time July 27, 2008 at 11:24 PM

Does any body know how much Finley would cost us? DS and have Finley come in off the bench, I love it.

Comment from nickman
Time July 27, 2008 at 11:26 PM

no trades needed we don’t need to lose any of our team chemistry

Comment from GrifonRacing
Time July 28, 2008 at 1:09 AM

From what Neal says (you can take that to the “bank” by the way) we could possibly get him for veteran’s minimum. Would keep us under the luxury tax.

Comment from GrifonRacing
Time July 28, 2008 at 1:24 AM

or Caron and Finley come off the bench. I love it too.

Comment from GrifonRacing
Time July 28, 2008 at 1:26 AM

Even Nick could get “his minutes” with that kind of “insurance”.

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time July 28, 2008 at 7:37 AM

I’d prefer Wells to Finley as far as production goes. But, either of them would be a great guy to add to the team.

Comment from neal
Time July 28, 2008 at 7:56 AM

Finley made about $3M last year. He’s a 13 year veteran. The minimum for him, therefore, is $1,262,275, which we could well afford. I bet he’d take it.

Ernie, are you listening? Speak to us, Ernie.

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time July 28, 2008 at 8:14 AM

what about bonzi, neal — what did he make last year and what is his minimum?

Comment from neal
Time July 28, 2008 at 8:25 AM

Two year guaranteed contract. Ernie?

Comment from neal
Time July 28, 2008 at 8:35 AM

Finley made $3,103,000, Wells made $2,284,200. Wells is a 10-year veteran, so his minimum is also $1,262,275.

Tom, you’re going to have to schmooz more of us to get enough votes for Wells.

Comment from nickman
Time July 28, 2008 at 12:02 PM

I like Bonzi but I don’t like his track record. Finley just makes sense to me and I think he would do the vet minimum. I think he needs a change in scenery, from West to East.

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time July 28, 2008 at 5:22 PM

Bonzi brings *much* more to the table at this point. Here is a table of unrestricted FAs (of whom many are now gone…), with their productivity via the WP48 (Wages of Wins) method vs. via the (almost useless) NBA EFF measure.

If Wells is available at the vet. minimum, he is a steal. Finley is productive — about as productive as Roger was — but Wells is one of the best FAs available.

Now, there may be problems w/ him as a teammate; that’s a different issue and should certainly be considered. But, as a player — assuming he plays up to his usual level — he would make us a better team without question.

Comment from GrifonRacing
Time July 28, 2008 at 10:56 PM

I like Bonzi as long as he is over his “issues” basketball aside. The last thing we need now is a locker room disruption. As far as our basketball needs I do like his game a little bit more. Only because of the “grit” factor plus he is more of a 2/3 kind of guy where as Finley is more of a solid 3.

That being said I like them both.

Comment from GrifonRacing
Time July 28, 2008 at 11:04 PM

I’ll never understand that numbers stuff lol. How can Bonzi Wells only be four thousandth’s of a percentage point above Michael Ruffin???? And how can Mr. Ruffin be rated so highly? At times like these I’m glad I just watch em play LOL.

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time July 29, 2008 at 7:16 AM

I will remind you that we won 46 games when Ruffin was here, and fewer once he left. Don’t you wonder why?

Ruffin rebounds at a good clip, doesn’t turn the ball over, and plays defense. The fact that he can’t shoot is of no consequence, because he *doesn’t shoot.* We didn’t need him to shoot, and he was an excellent contributor to team success.

Another way to put it — we were better w/ Michael Ruffin than w/ Darius Songaila.

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time July 29, 2008 at 7:42 AM

Let me try to explain what I mean by rating Ruffin way over Songaila by looking at what they did last year, every 36 minutes.

Songaila got 6.3 rebounds. Ruffin got 10.6 rebounds. (big advantage Ruffin)
Songaila had 2 turnovers and 1.2 steals. Ruffin had 1.1 turnovers and 1.8 steals. (big advantage Ruffin)
Songaila had 3.1 assists, .4 blocks, and 4.2 fouls. Ruffin had 1.4 assists, 1.1 blocks and 5.3 fouls. (advantage Songaila)

Ok, so what does this all mean? Well, rebounds plus steals minus turnovers equals *net possessions* that you get for your team, so that *someone* (you or a teammate) can score. Michael Ruffin gets his team *a lot more* possessions than Darius does.

Assists, blocks and low number of fouls measure your contribution to *doing something* w/ those possessions. Darius is better in this department.

But, what about shooting you ask?

Songaila took 10.8 FGAs and 1.7 FTAs in order to get his team 11.5 points — the low efficiency makes this *a wash* as far as contributing to wins.

Ruffin took 3.5 shots and 3.6 FTAs to get 5.2 points — also a wash due to low efficiency.

So, no advantage to the team from either guy’s shooting. It’d be better to have other guys taking the shots.

Comment from nickman
Time July 29, 2008 at 8:27 AM

You make good points Tom, but I believe some of these stats aren’t as important as others. When I think about that game we lost to Toronto when Ruffin threw the ball in the air, to this day I still hold a grudge. Stupid, stupid, stupid. I would think Darius’ free throw shooting would have some kind of positive impact.

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time July 29, 2008 at 4:19 PM

Darius is a terrific FT shooter; his FT stats are reflected in the above numbers.

As to some stats being more important than others, the ones I list are the stats that can be tracked for their effect on wins and losses.

Net possessions (rebounds plus steals minus turnovers) is a *key* stat for a big guy. Ruffin is way ahead in that department.

The other key measure is scoring efficiency — how many shot attempts/FT attempts it takes you to score your points. Songaila’s *career numbers* for shooting efficiency are better than Ruffin’s, but they are nothing special. Last year, however, Ruffin’s scoring efficiency was better than Darius’s — again, however, nothing special.

Comment from GrifonRacing
Time July 29, 2008 at 10:28 PM

That’s great food for thought, but, why is he listed so highly among all of the other free agents? Would you pick him that high given the other free agents on the board (if money wasn’t an issue… just skill set)? He didn’t lose us any games (cept one Nickman lol), but, he certainly didn’t win us any either. He was a good position defender and a descent rebounder. Past that point he had no game at all. He couldn’t hit a free throw without an amount of luck involved. And I think everybody the world over cringed when he shot from the floor. I just can’t imagine a guy like Bonzi being only a .004 percent better player than Michael.

His shot percentage is higher only because he got a few extra tip ins not because he is a better shooter from the floor. He has to have a high shot percentage ….. he never shoots (and with good reason lol).

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time July 30, 2008 at 7:37 AM

Basketball, being a team game, puts people in roles. Ruffin doesn’t contribute via shooting. He contributes via rebounding and making few mistakes. Since Michael isn’t called on to score, his lack of scoring ability is of no consequence.

Of course, the very best players can do it all — Tim Duncan can do everything Michael can do, only better, and he is an efficient scorer as well.

As to the comparison between Ruffin and Wells, keep in mind that they play different positions. In general, bigs contribute more to winning than wings. Their numbers generally look better for that reason. Obviously, you couldn’t have a team of five Michael Ruffin’s on the floor! It’s that role-playing thing again.

Comment from Big Dogg
Time July 30, 2008 at 9:59 AM

What are GM’s thinking giving some of these dudes the kind of money that they’re getting!? Loul Deng just got a 6 year/81 Mil deal with $71 Mil guaranteed and $10 Mil in incentives. I can just imagine what Caron will be worth and what he could ask for when that time comes around.

Comment from Tom Mandel
Time July 30, 2008 at 12:29 PM

Assuming Caron keeps going on his current arc, and that he stays healthy, he will probably be a max player at some point. He and Paul Peirce are the class of SFs in the East.